Talk:Student position

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Adding New Positions

Hold it right there! If you're about to add your own position, follow these guidelines

1. Add it on the page Other Lancaster Positions according to the rules there

2. Add it on to the end of the list of "Other Positions" on this page

3. Link the entry on Other Lancaster Positions from the list here.

Try not to add frivolous positions, and avoid Shameless Egotism

== Definition of a Position diverse and poorly defined. Thus, people have indiifferent ideas about how they should be defined.

What I've written here is a combination of my own opinion and thoseiof people I know who have some authority on the subject. That said, it's not a perfect definition, so there's definitely room for additions/improvement.

If you want to change the description, I recommend talking about it here first. That's what we have discussion pages for.

Hola!!! As it was explained to me during the creation of Documentator Session One, the process of creating a new position is this: 1. Propose to members of current Trinity and Jester and the Trinity and Jester of the previous year. 2. Make a case (e.g. why this position is needed, responsibilities, etc.) 3. A debate and subsequent vote is held. After all of this, if a position is denied, one may still choose to pass it. However, this is considered rather improper. In the end, the passing and history of a position gives it its validity. However, I think it's important to have some sort of process to avoid frivolous position-making. Also, still confused if Shots is a position or an item? On that subject, a position has more responsibility than an item holder. Most item holders just have to safeguard the item and project what it represents into the CTY community, but position holders have actual duties in addition to keeping an artifact and embodying an idea. Also, I made a list of one word that describes what every position/item represents (in my interpretation, but everyone's is different, of course) (e.g. Cloak- individuality). I don't know if that is something of relevance on here or not. ALSO, SECRET KEEPER IS NOT A DEAD POSITION. -Shprinkles

Do people still do this (the procedure, I mean)? I got this from the Holy Ghost this year, who told me that there is basically no process and anyone has the power, asking the current holders is just a polite thing to do. Tekettay and myself went through very informal approval/suggestion process this year at first session. Similarly at second session, while getting approval from the pentinity members seems to be proper, none of them mentioned an application to the group.

The distinction between a relic/item and a position seems to be one of responsibility. A position has a roll (such as running Monty Python Madness), possibly in addition to carrying a relic. A relic holder need only keep the relic - while it may be symbolic, there's nothing special they do with it. Thus, the Dress and Caution Tape Cape are clearly items, while Head Monk, Coconuts, and Shots are all positions.

The secret keeper notebook was lost this year, found by Sasha, and then not claimed at passionfruit. This suggests that someone held the position and didn't pass it down, not to mention that the notebook was lost (I think Gene has it? I could get it back...). Also, it's been undisclosed for 2 years running now. -Andrew

As far as the procedure goes, Kenjiro went through a lot of debate with Documentator, which is how I learned the protocol. I suppose no one can stop you if you don't get approval, but it's an official blessing, which is a nice thing to have.

As we can see from "The Dave", people seem willing to make positions for basically any reason, as long as they get to slap their name on it. As far as I'm concerned, both in life and at CTY (at least in my time), a position can't really be "created"; it can originate in a time and place and with a particular person, and it can persist, but it's only a position if it has lasting power. My belief is that positions probably shouldn't be listed here unless they have withstood the test of some number of years (maybe four or five, but it's pretty arbitrary regardless), and that "new positions" should be relegated to a Memories page. Otherwise, simply being on RealCTY contributes to the legitimacy of the position, and that seems dumb because anyone and their pet monkey can make a "me and my pet monkey" position and say it's a Real Position Wow Amaze.

--Max W. (talk) 21:30, 16 August 2015 (EDT)

My opinion is that there should be at least five continuous years before a "new position" gets moved from the Memories page. Five years is a four-year generation of CTY students, plus a year, so that's enough to tell if there's real staying power in the idea.

Even when a position lasts five years, it may not be relevant or necessary. I am amazed that there are positions to perform actions like "is a friend" or "promotes sketchiness." I see no reason why Lorekeeper, Squirrel of the Year, Quotebook, The Friend, Kiwi Backpack, or Pedobear are even around; other ones like Coconuts and Head Monk appear to exist purely to allow more people to hold a position. It reminds me of how clubs at school have an absurd number of officers.

Perhaps it is curmudgeonly, but I find it more worthwhile when something occurs and snowballs on its own. The original Duckholders and the original Fruitopia holder certainly did not intend on creating something that has lasted this long, and it seems like positions have generally been created out of Shameless Egotism at least since 2007's intentional creation of the session 1 Trinity, if not before.

Dutchman (talk) 15:10, 18 August 2015 (EDT)